SHAYS: Ms. Doan, I think you're a remarkable person. I think you're a beautiful person. I regret that you've been treated the way that you've been treated.
They talk about it being an interrogation. We had, last week, a Democratic member say, I have a lot of questioning, but I have to say that, after being here for 11 years, I hate it when witnesses are attacked. It bothers me, particularly when they are trying to do the best they can, in the words of Thurgood Marshall, "with what they have."
Well, with what you have, you have a lot. You have created an extraordinary business. You have given to charities. And you have shown an interest in politics in, frankly, a very naive way. Because you just wanted to help.
And I don't care what the press thinks about what I'm going to say or anybody else. I just want to say to you, you are a remarkable person. And you have been attacked and attacked and attacked. And you have held your head up high.
I just wish you would sometimes wait to let people finish the question, because you answer a question they haven't even asked you and then they twist it by then saying, well, you know, whatever.
I want to know who have you retaliated against?
DOAN: No one, to my knowledge.
SHAYS: I would like someone in this hearing to tell me who she's retaliated against. Give me names. Give me names of people she's retaliated against.
WAXMAN: Gentleman yield?
SHAYS: Yes.
WAXMAN: What Ms. Doan said to the Office of Special Counsel...
SHAYS: I would like the name. All I want is the name. You ask her for a question, just give me a name.
WAXMAN: OK. We will get the names of the people who testified...
SHAYS: Right. I'm sure you'll give me names.
WAXMAN: ... about her to this committee. Those were the people she referred to as getting a poor performance standard when they didn't...
SHAYS: That is totally a misstatement.
(CROSSTALK)
SHAYS: I reclaim my time. I reclaim my time.
The bottom line is, there is no name. You haven't retaliated against anybody. And you're being accused of doing something in the future which you haven't done.
Then they talk about the fact that there was a performance, as if you retaliated against somebody, and the facts are clear that happened before.
I find this hearing astonishing. And I just want to say, is there any -- you've retaliated against no one. You have made an assessment of your employees fairly. You believe that some employees may not like you and you are being criticized for that.
Well, I think there are some employees in my own office that sometimes don't like me.
(LAUGHTER)
And I know there are a lot of people who have worked for me that may not. You know what? I don't think that's a surprising thing to say.
What is surprising is that you had to answer questions under interrogation for nine hours, and this is it? This is it? All that we've come up with is, a meeting shouldn't have happened and maybe she said, "How can I help our candidates?" That's it.
SHAYS: There has got to be a point where this hearing is ending, and if anything, owe her an apology for what you put her through.
I yield back.
...
SHAYS: Thank you. Congressman Sarbanes was critical of your lack of contrition and humility. In fact, I think he said he had never seen a witness show so little contrition and humility.
Coming from a member of Congress, we're not quite known for our showing contrition and humility. That was one mouthful.
Congress plays by its own rules. We exempt ourselves from laws we impose on the rest of the nation, the general public, and the executive branch. In fact, some members get in trouble when they leave Congress and go to the executive branch because they still play by the same rules and find out they can't.
The public can't FOIA my documents. My e-mails are not going to be public. So I don't think members of Congress should be beating our chests and talking about the shame of other departments when we play by totally different rules.
The special counsel document is a charge by a prosecutor. He's a special counsel, correct? It's a charge, isn't it?
DOAN: Yes.
SHAYS: It's somewhat like an indictment.
DOAN: Yes.
SHAYS: And my Democratic colleagues continually lecture me on when someone takes the Fifth, I think they're guilty, and when someone's charged, I sometimes say, "You know, I think they may be guilty." And they say, "No, you're innocent until proven guilty."
And in your case, before this committee, you're guilty until proven innocent. That's what we're seeing and I've seen it on the other side of the aisle from people who continually lecture me about you're innocent until proven guilty.
Now, there are two things that I think happened that shouldn't have happened. A meeting shouldn't have happened. I thought it was January of 2006 and that somehow you had been involved in helping someone in the last campaign. I find out this is January 26, 2007.
And the second thing that shouldn't have happened, in my judgment, is that a comment shouldn't have been made, "How can we help our candidate." You're not sure if you made this. You may have made some statement like that. You may have given that impression. Who knows right now what that is?
So those two things bother me. Frankly, I would have thought that you could have been reprimanded, you could have been told this is not what you do. I have things that I do in my office and sometimes my staff say, "Boss, if you do this, you're going to be breaking a law" and I say, "Well, we better not do it" and they stop it.
They're entitled to shut down my office anytime they think we're doing something wrong. But in 20 years, you know, I have not suggested everything that should be right. Once in a while, I have to be corrected.
So it seems to me the appropriate thing for dealing with you should have been simply to say, "You know what? You made a mistake. It shouldn't have happened. Don't let it happen again." And you know what? Knowing your character and what I've see, you would have said, "Thank you. It won't happen again and, yes, we will check with the ethics before we do anything," because this is not like the businesses that I used to run.
Now, one Democrat said, "When we combine everything, it looks bad for you." I would change that -- when they twist everything. And I mean no disrespect to the chairman, but the chairman said to you that you are threatening your employees and saying they will not get a bonus.
You never said that. You never, ever said that. What you did say was in explanation to why you thought someone who got a rating of three would be unhappy because they would not get a bonus. That is what you said. That's what the record needs to say. You never threatened your employees. Now, it was an explanation of why some employees may not get.
So I want to know, who have you retaliated against?
DOAN: No one.
SHAYS: I'd like to know, what candidates have you helped as a result of this January '07 meeting?
DOAN: None.
SHAYS: So no employee was retaliated against. No candidates were helped as a result of this meeting. And at one time, you were being chastised because you had a friend who you would have liked to have had a contract. It was for $20,000.
Did that friend get the contract?
DOAN: No.
SHAYS: So I have a very difficult time understanding why we have spent so much time. I don't disparate the committee for saying let's look into it, but once you looked into it, my God, it seems to me we could have done some more important stuff.
DOAN: Congressman, it does seem to me that what happens is they're trying to take that slide or two that was in that presentation and they're trying to say that something happened with some of those guys, and that's just now how GSA works. Our priorities are determined by our customers.
SHAYS: Well, let me just say something to you. You've already been put on the record as saying that. I just wish that meeting never happened and you wish it never happened and had it not happened, we would have been a lot better off.
(UNKNOWN): Why don't you ask her if she wishes it never happened?
SHAYS: Well, do you wish the meeting never happened?
DOAN: After the amount of time we've spent on it, clearly.
SHAYS: Of course. But, you know, I don't think you need to rip your clothes and cry and say, "I have sinned, I have sinned, I have sinned."
You know what? I just want to thank you for your service. I hope it doesn't discourage other people like you to get into this. And I will say this to you, I find it -- and this is my own view -- but I find it when an African-American happens to be a Republican, somehow she is treated differently by Congress, and unfairly so.
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