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My Left Nutmeg

Impeachment

by: mattw

Tue May 08, 2007 at 19:04:41 PM EDT


Tomorrow night in Norwalk, there'll be an impeachment forum with Dan DeWalt, one of the organizers of the Vermont state legislature's impeachment resolution. It'll be a lively conversation – even though a similar approach is closed until after 2008 here in Connecticut (since there's no more opportunity for CT legislators to file new bills) – with a fun crowd.

Impeachment is one of those things where I don't feel there's a strong orthodoxy one way or the other in the MLN community (but I certainly can be proven wrong - poll over the fold). There are a few separate questions to be answered: can / should we commit resources to investigating abuses from the executive branch? Who will bring charges, and what charges? And – even though it might not look this way for the After Downing Street folks (who see in the Downing Street Memo as the evidence needed to impeach, convict, and remove) – will those two questions line up to make for an impeachment trial of substance?

The last one is important – a lot of us were unhappy when no Senator joined in the motion to challenge electors in 2001 (following Bush v. Gore and the Florida debacle), and in 2004, while Boxer joined with Tubbs-Jones to make the challenge official, it's hardly an event that'll go down in the history books. The reason why is because it was one political event without an understood cultural meaning (in the way that we understand the meaning of an election, for example), with no preparation or organization to define a meaning, and with no real follow-up to place the event in a larger context. It became insignificant in the most basic sense of the word: it didn't signify anything.

My concern about impeachment-from-the-states, given that it's very unusual when considered against the backdrop of 200+ years of American politics, is that should it flop, it'll meet the same fate as the failure to challenge Ohio's Presidential Electors in 2004. If the action is part of a move towards challenging and diminishing executive authority in our government, then I think it could be the beginning of a number of very positive changes even if it fails, ultimately, to remove Bush or Cheney from office.

However, I think it's just as likely, if not more so, that the event of an impeachment resolution transmitted to the House by a state legislature (followed by that events' probable failure) will be used as a bludgeoning stick against "spineless Democrats."  Working to lure progressives into a paper-thin movement that promises results without all the time, energy, and organization that's required to genuinely change the minds of the American public – for better or worse, the most famously stubborn population on the face of the earth – has all the appeal to me of doing another "not a dime's worth of difference" dance while President Tancredo is sworn into office.

I'm obviously of mixed opinions on the matter – but that's exactly why this kind of debate is interesting and exciting to me. If that's your cup of tea, swing by the Silver Star tomorrow at 7 to discuss impeachment with Dan DeWalt of VTImpeach.org.

mattw :: Impeachment
Poll
Should Congressional Dems focus on impeaching Bush / Cheney over the next 18 months?
Yes
No

Results

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Impeachment | 7 comments
I don't think it's viable (0.00 / 0)
And would pull resources and attention away from issues which would benefit from both.

I refuse to let my pragmatism get in the way of my idealism.

So let's say, hypothetically... (0.00 / 0)
...that your neigbor, who is moving to another state in 18 months, appears to have broken into your house, stolen some of your belongings, and raped your wife. Of course, whoever moves in next is bound to be better. And you have lots on your mind what with work and taking care of the family. So, I assume, by your logic, that it would be acceptable to overlook what this person has done and move on to other more important things until he's gone.

We have a man sitting in our White House who has stolen from our treasury, raped our constitution, and committed murder on a global scale. Since when is it more important to put political considerations ahead of stopping this person from committing any more crimes, and making damn sure that whoever moves into the house after he leaves, won't just pickup where he left off?


[ Parent ]
Whether it's viable or not... (0.00 / 0)
the talk of impeachment is certainly an important issue to discuss. People have to be reminded that this president LIED to the American people and to Congress about the rationale for going into Iraq. Even if Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emanuel, and Harry Reid have not the slightest wish of impeaching this president (for fear of the "backlash" from the rest of America), the fertile blogosphere has enough voices and enough readers where this kind of sanely 'subversive' talk may have traction to further drive this current administration's political cachet six feet underground.

The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice. --Martin Luther King, Jr.

Impeachment is not an option, it is a Constitutional mandate! (4.00 / 1)
Quote: ' I don't think it's viable. And would pull resources and attention away from issues which would benefit from both.'

With all due respect, the squandering of our precious  'resources and attention' on Impeachment is the lamest DLC talking point.  I think the Repugs who Impeached Clinton for Monica love to hear us Democrats repeat this crap.

If we do not Impeach this scoundrels now then no amount of 'resources and attention' will save us from the next President  (or even this one) becoming a Dictator.  Do you want Hillary or Obama with no checks on her or his power lust in 2008???!!!

The Bush/Cheney torture and destruction of the Constitution are crying to high haven - IMPEAAAACH!


Hey Val (0.00 / 0)
Just a heads up, if you're replying to someone, could you click "reply" next to their post so your comment goes under theirs? Obviously with 3 comments it's not such a big deal, but threaded comments help everyone follow who's talking to who.

I think the challenge is to find something that Bush andr Cheney can be pinned down on conclusively. Congressional investigation is a check on the assertion of limitless power: attributing specific bad acts to specific individuals before an extended investigation -- then proving it -- is probably the most challenging route to take.

–7.25 / –7.28 | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tw...


[ Parent ]
There is Already Enough Evidence... (0.00 / 0)
...to warrant an impeachment investigation. Perhaps the person who has best laid the case out is former prosecutor Elizabeth De La Vega in her book, United States V. George W. Bush et al.

From Publishers Weekly

By revisiting public statements, official documents and journalistic reports from the months leading up to the Iraq invasion, de la Vega builds a legal case that President Bush and top members of his administration engaged in a conspiracy to "deceive the American public and Congress into supporting the war." Drawing on her experience as a federal prosecutor, as well as the work of scholars and legal experts, she brings a well-honed legal perspective to the issue. She presents her argument in transcript form as a hypothetical weeklong presentation to a grand jury, including extensive testimony from three fictional investigative agents.

I believe that there is already substantial evidence of impeachable offenses on many other fronts as well. For example, Bush has brazenly and openly admitted breaking the FISA law in his warrantless wiretapping program. We also have indisputable evidence that his administration has violated the Geneva Convention, and thus our constitution, by torturing prisoners. And now it appears that the Bush crime family has turned the DoJ into another branch of the Republican party.



[ Parent ]
Bravo!! (0.00 / 0)
I couldn't have said it any better, Val. Impeachment is no longer an option.

[ Parent ]
Impeachment | 7 comments
 
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