One AndersonScooper posted this video of the recent townhall of Chris Murphy in Simsbury earlier this week. I saw it over at Connecticut Local Politics where you can read the comments of Genghis Conn about what he saw there.
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We ALWAYS addressed Sen. Lieberman using the Word SENATOR and NEVER even raised our voices at a publoic event where the Senator was present(and I was at just about every one he had in both 2005 and 2006).
I'll monly add that if you ask the people who were on Liebermans staff during the primary season ( most whom I consider freinds today) they'll tell you we never even considered disruption of public events where ideas would be on display since discussion and debate was our goal.
Code Pink confronting Condoleeza Rice at a Senate hearing.
and code pink were always a little too in your face for comfort. .Adding Another Dimension of Vituperation Toxicity to Blogging since 1999!.
I think Sheehan deserves a little more "space" because she lossed her son.
I'm sorry she lost her son, but that was really uncalled for. What doe she think would have happened to her if she were Venezuelan and living under Chavez??? .Adding Another Dimension of Vituperation Toxicity to Blogging since 1999!.
It's rather obvious you have a bbig problem with Ole Hugo but noone can argue that he is not the duly elected President of Venezuela or that our President and other elected officials don't take pictures pretty much like that one with much much worse Leaders.
As for Sheehans judgement I think we both agree it was always lacking and seems to get worse as time goes on.
While Chavez is BIG on left-wing rhetoric, if you actually look at his actions, he has been developing a middle class. He has put the money, not into an ever expanding military class, but to work by putting doctors and health care providers into rural areas, as well as teachers.
In the America's, as bang for the buck goes, Chavez gets greater bang for the buck on healthcare and education than the US.
In addition, while the US has had a shrinking middle class since the Raygun Revolution, Chavez's government has overseen a growing middle class. By distributing the wealth away from the top 1% he has been able to grow and stabilize his country.
Yes, the "first amendment rights" we take so seriously here are a bit curtailed there. But those same "first amendment rights" are what allows Faux News and the corporatists to stir up the teabaggers and create situational violence and eliminate civil debate and discourse. When that first person pulls out a gun and shoots at one of the Democrats at a town hall, you won't see Beck or any of the Faux hosts being held responsible. You won't see all the lobbyists and big money corporate players that financed and managed this mess held responsible. All they were doing is using their "first amendment rights" to whisper "fire" into a crowed theater, they never actually yelled it! And whispering "fire" is protected by the "First Amendment". [sorry about the rant, but my hope is that Dobbs, Beck, OReily, et al are all charged with commissions of a crime for inciting to riot the day that it goes violent by some really smart State AG - he has the videotape, and if lucky the jury will be all Democrats].
While I may not like some of the things that Chavez has done, and may not like all of his methods, the results speak for themselves when you look at what is really happening on the ground with their economy and with government services. In simple terms, it is working. The question is not what you are, we already determined that, we are now negotiating price.electrealdemocrats.com Online since 3/07 -- TimetogoJoe.com Online s
Code Pink's intent is to be annoying to the Powers-that-Be, but unlike the modern day "brownshirts", the "Teabaggers", Code Pink isn't trying to squash dissent. They are pushing for dissent and challenging the Powers-that-Be who use their power to silence dissent from their corrupt policies. Code Pink is using the same strategy book on provocative tactics abolitionists developed. Many of those tactics are used by many other groups, including Sea Shepherd and human rights groups.
And contrary to Rahm "the corporate whore" Emanuel, I support the DFA ads against Ben Nelson and the Blue Dog Democrats. Rahm is more an embarrassment to Democrats than Sheehan and Code Pink.
If you want to know what happened to "Change you can believe in" it all got washed away by the man who though that he was responsible for the Democrats retaking the House even though a majority of those blue-dogs he backed as head of the DCCC didn't win their campaigns and the majority came from support and money from the netroots.
In the dictionary,next to the word "sellout" is a picture of Rahm. The question is not what you are, we already determined that, we are now negotiating price.electrealdemocrats.com Online since 3/07 -- TimetogoJoe.com Online s
If anything, Sens. Lieberman and Boxer were a bit dismissive of me (and the fabulous Maura Keaney) when we attempted to engage them in some constructive dialog.
Although, I did leave a comment in at the very end that reflected my nervousness during the exchange, but that was a stylistic choice on my part. I caught a bit of flak about that from some people who thought it semi-trivialized the entire video. But I felt it helped convey what I was feeling; and besides, it was kind of funny.
But the point is, we didn't try to shout anyone down or bully anyone. And as for all the baseless talk from the conservative Right about our supposed "lack of civility", just compare this exchange with the video of Rep. Murphy's recent event:
And while I generally agree philosophically with Sheehan's and Code Pink's stance, I find their tactics to be completely counter-productive and a hindrance to an exchange of ideas. They kind of remind me of the Lyndon LaRouche wackos.
Although those guys are pretty funny when they're being arrested for flinging literature into the senator's face. I'm sure a weekend in the Hartford lockup helped straighten them right out! Connecticut Bob
Sam Stein on the threats of violence being sent to unions: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
Examples:
An official with the AFL-CIO. . . passed on what he described as a "pretty direct threat" to those union hands who were showing up to balance out anti-Obama [sic?] demonstrations being waged at local Democratic forums:
"I will be going to a local town hall this weekend, all you union members BEWARE!" an emailer wrote at 9:40 Saturday morning. "We will be waiting for you. better make sure you have arrangements with your local ER. today is the day when the goon meets the gun. see you there."
OR, sent to an SEIU official among 50 other messages of a similar type:
"You socialist f---s have the nerve to say stop the violence at the town hall meetings when they weren't violent until you p---ies showed up because your n----- leader obama said to?????? When we have ours in Racine, Wi, I want you there. I want one of your little b----- to put his hands on this Marine. I want one of you to look or talk to me wrong. I'll be the last thing your ignorant faux body guards will remember for a very long time. You can f---ing guarantee that."
The second message justifies (organized?) violence as an acceptable response to (organized?) citizens with a different point of view showing up for the meeting.
This is something altogether different from showing up at a Congressional meeting with a grievance.
American adults who leave homes to go to their congressman and say, "Stop, you are changing my life and liberty through illegal means!" are strong voters.
They may not look polished, but they sure are angry. How these new activist citizens are treated by all sides may grow the numbers. These are the voters who will pay for the programs and stimulus as well as their children and grandchildren.
So laugh and make fun, but know that this movement is more serious than you may give it credit for.
There is another group just below these most angry citizens. They are watching. They are in the wings, seeing if they seem threatened as well. Send info on information you receive to the president's email set up? Send union groups (I got the email) to out-number/intimidate the vocal senior citizenry? The president says we don't want to hear them, just get this job done?
Call them crazy and fringe? They may be more mainstream than you realize.
I am a union member and I am growing more and more weary of all the magazines, websites and papers coming through as if we only are allowed to hear from Democrat candidates. The newsletter has interviews and support ($$$) automatically goes to those candidates. It's like a love-fest. No votes taken, just decisions from the top.
I believe the frustration at town hall meetings is from the perception pushing legislation through before hearing from constituents who have to pay for it.
In our little corner of CT the frustration at the town hall mtg stemmed from 45 minutes of talk from the Rep, then a long list of speakers extolling the thanks for the bill not yet done and then only a few questions in the time provided. It seemed the clock was run out on purpose. Why not stay and hear questions/concerns from your constiuents if you represent those who show up? The mtg for the 2nd district - a very large physical area - was done in the NE corner in a tiny town without much notice. Even those who called the Rep's office that day were told the schedule was uncertain.
People who I know who have attended these things are not crazies, but are working people. And no, we have not heard from insurance companies or gotten any money for showing up.
We have gotten notice from our unions saying we must outnumber those who show up and not let them 'take over' the discussion on health care; block the effort. I suspect that can be taken too far as well.
From the attitude in the title of your post I see you are rudely pushing back already.
I can hear that you believe many ideas given in the mass media that voters who do not want to pay for more deficit than we can handle are strange, unbalanced adults.
There are ways to improve the health care situation for those who truly need and want care and can not afford it without mandating what all of the rest of us will do.
Backward is the government telling the people what they will do, and not the other way around.
So of the thousands of citizens who have gathered since April 2009 is this truly representative of the movement?
And why do some pictured advertise that their govt is acting in non-representative ways, forcing citizens into programs/actions?
So they are not signing to be a NAZI but against what they consider national socialist tactics/measures.
Until then you have none.
If you study history you will find that what the teabagging nutsacks are doing is much more reminiscent of the tactics/measures of the brownshirts in Germany before the rise of Hitler than ANYTHING barack Obama or the Democrats have done.
They're not officially signing on to tha Nazi party but by condemning our president (despite these same fuckwads always chastising us to 'support our president' when Bush was in office) and engaging in thuggish activities to thwart our president from pushing things that will ultimately help their dumb asses as well, they are engaging in the same tactics/measures they are supposedly condemning.
It's called P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N.
I do actually encounter these people from time to time. I talk to them and try and correct the outright errors in their logic and in their facts
I'm not 100% sold on the Obama 'solution' as it's still a work in progress.. but this current system is VERY broken and it cannot continue. IT WILL BE THE DEATH OF US ALL except for the very rich who will be able to afford healthcare
I don't care what the anthem representative tells me in CTBlogger's footage. .Adding Another Dimension of Vituperation Toxicity to Blogging since 1999!.
And these people are filled with hatred for the politicians who want to do that for them.
What morons!!! What absolute morons!
What morons won't trust the US Government to take care of them for life!
Yes, let's fix fraud, and cut bureaucracy. Don't make a committee to decide the best care for me and don't go into my bank account to pay the govt for my care.
The more decisions you give up to a bureaucracy the less power you have over your life and death. This does not even mention that the contract we have with each other agreeing to a government with limited power over us, the Constitution, is trampled by this kind of plan.
The government is going to set up a "plan". Their plan will be no different from what you get to choose from under Blue Cross.
If YOU don't like the government plan, there is NO REQUIREMENT that you enroll in it. If you don't have a private insurance, you can choose to enroll in it (or get private insurance). If you are financially in hot water (lack funds) no one will be turned away from the governments plan. If you have a pre-existing condition, you will not be charged 5 times as much in the governments plan.
You want to know about committee's making life and death decisions, go to Blue Cross and ask them what happens when you reach your lifetime maximum with them. What happens when you have a health issue and you need more than $1,500 yearly prescriptions. There are thousands of horror stories from people that have met the people at Blue Cross who make life and death decisions every day. Not medical doctors, but bean counters.
The reality is that these decisions aren't between you and your doctor when you have private insurance. That's a lie. They are between you, your doctor and a for-profit corporation that doesn't have any desire to pay the bill and will do everything in their power to NOT pay the bill.
There is a reason Medicare has a 3-5% overhead and private insurance runs 25-30%.
Now, if you want to pay more and get less, please feel free to. But don't take away my option to have a better health care plan at lower cost.
Finally, the "Constitution" says nothing about this type of thing. If the government wants to get in the business of offering health care (and they do, it's called Medicare) they aren't trampling anything as long as YOU have the option of subscribing to it or not. And from everything I have read in every bill with a public option thus far, they are ALL option not mandatory. The question is not what you are, we already determined that, we are now negotiating price.electrealdemocrats.com Online since 3/07 -- TimetogoJoe.com Online s
Consider: "In a new study published by the Annals of Internal Medicine, its findings showed that nearly
one out of every three working aged uninsured American suffers from a chronic illness and that many of these individuals are not going to their private physicians but are visiting the emergency departments in hospitals for medical care.
There were about 12,486 people between the ages of 18 to 64 records reviewed. It is noted that the study may underestimate the number of uninsured people with chronic conditions since it counted only those who had already received a diagnosis. " (Source: http://hospitalhealthcare.rip2...
I wonder how they are paying for those emergency room visits?
A quoted study (Get sick or get out, the medical causes of home foreclosure) found that
medical bills were a factor in 23 percent of home foreclosures. Overall, illness and injury contributed to about half of the foreclosures examined.
Source: http://stanford.wellsphere.com...
Or how about this: "People age 65 and up carried an average of $10,235 credit card debt in 2008, according to a study released Tuesday by Demos, a public policy research group. That's an increase of 26% since the organization's last survey of low- and middle-income borrowers in 2005. The average debt for all borrowers in the survey rose just 3%, to $9,827, during that same time period.
Rising health care costs may be one reason seniors are turning to plastic, the study shows. More than half of indebted families surveyed cited medical expenses as a major factor that contributed to credit card debt; the average household, in fact, attributed $2,194 of credit card debt to medical expenses. Senior households, however, blamed almost $4,000 of credit card debt on out-of-pocket medical costs. Prescription drugs were the medical expense most often cited.
As far as I can tell the only real freedom of choice comes for those with plenty of money and relatively good health who actually don't need insurance or can freely supplement whatever is not covered. Everyone else must in the end either make an economically-based decision, or make a health-based decision that likely has financial implications for their and their family's future welfare.
How/do you think the inability to pay for medical care and the resultant impact on foreclosures, credit card debt, and emergency room usage might affect other citizens' pocketbooks? Could it be that taxes are not the only way we will pay to help keep our brothers and sisters? Because IMHO not only WILL we pay -- we are already paying. It is simply a matter of how.
In terms of fear of government judgments about coverage, what about the insurance companies' calculated denials of coverage? How is this not an onerous and unacceptable situation to the government fearers?
This summer Congress held hearings after a LA Times report about
insurance companies not only deliberately denying 20,000 patients coverage over technicalities, but deliberately targeting certain conditions for claim denials.
http://www.darkdaily.com/healt...
"We presently have a system in which a hundred million Americans either have no insurance or are under-insured and that system determines who lives and dies daily. On top of that, we have a health care system in which insurance company bureaucrats routinely make life and death decisions that deny coverage and Americans think this is freedom." (source: Grant Lawrence, http://www.opednews.com/articl... )
While there may be a group of people that is terrified by the government's involvement in health care and the whole "government as bogeyman" argument, recent Gallup numbers don't tend to suggest that people find the government anywhere near as objectionable as the insurance companies themselves(with the exception of Republican leaders in Congress, whom they trust even less than insurance companies):
The numbers from a June 09 Gallup poll are:
The percent of respondents expressing confidence in: * Doctors: 73% * Healthcare professors/researchers: 62% * Hospitals: 61% * President Barack Obama: 58% * Democratic leaders in Congress: 42% * Pharmaceutical companies: 40% * Health insurance companies: 35% * Republican leaders in Congress: 34%
* Doctors: 73% * Healthcare professors/researchers: 62% * Hospitals: 61% * President Barack Obama: 58% * Democratic leaders in Congress: 42% * Pharmaceutical companies: 40% * Health insurance companies: 35% * Republican leaders in Congress: 34%
Food for thought.
But along comes Medicare, a "single-payer" system of government health insurance that over the past forty five years has been the sole insurance company for every single American aged 65 and over. And what happens? Euthanasia? Lack of choice? Horror stories from seniors? Nope, for nearly half a century that single-payer federal government insurance system has worked beautifully. In fact, seniors on Medicare are more positive about it than people on private health insurance policies. Indeed, Medicare works so well that Taiwan, which searched the world looking for the best model of health insurance for its own people, chose the Medicare model- and fully implemented it.
Now where in the world do you get all the angst about lack of choice, about fear of bureaucracy, the fear that the Constitution will be "trampled by this plan"? Where in the world do you conjure up these ridiculous fears?
You say you're retired. Are you over 65? Are you on Medicare? If so, has it served you badly? Worse than your private insurance? Do you feel that the government has "trampled" over your Constitutional rights with Medicare?
Now I will agree with you that Medicare Part D, the drug plan that Bush farmed out to private insurance companies, is a disaster. But that's because he, well, farmed it out to private insurers who do such a bad job at everything they do. And I will agree that Medicare Advantage is a disaster for seniors and Medicare, because it permits private companies to cherry pick the healthiest seniors from traditional Medicare, leaving the government-run Medicare plan with increasingly sicker and higher-cost patients, while it subsidizes private companies to provide health care to cheaper healthier seniors. That's stupid, and that's what the Obama administration wants to halt.
But please do respond and tell us if you're on Medicare, and whether that insurance plan has destroyed your life. And please tell us how it compares with the insurance you had before Medicare, or if you didn't have insurance before Medicare. We'd be fascinated by your responses, I'm sure!!
Or worse yet, the VA system which is about as pure a socialized system as one can get. Those damn socialistic-commie-maoist-marxistic-lenninistic soldiers and their socialized medicine!!!
Oh and as for the constitution,
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I'd say that providing healthcare to all the citizen would fall under promoting general welfare. If we're all sick and dying, well liberty and freedom don't mean squat. You know sort of like how republiscum told us that we had to torture suspected terrorists and violate the Geneva convention because well you never know if they had information on a ticking timebomb that would blow us up to smithereenes and if we were dead as a result well our civil liberties really didn't mean squat. Well fortunately providing healthcare to all is much less torturous of our logic than that was.
Plus George Bush and the republiscum in his admin and in DC did FAR worse trampling of our constitution than providing healthcare to all ever could do. Our constitution has skid marks from Bush wiping his ass with it.
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